Afraid of God

image of God(republished from another blog with permission, Feb 2005)

l might have mentioned it before that I started to read the “Disappearance of the Universe”. This is a book describing and leading to the book “A Course in Miracles” which I now started. The ideas are great and feel really true but I keep having this problem with the words God, Holy Spirit, Christ and in particular all this upper-cased Him and His.

What is that – am I afraid of something?

I was in my mid to late teens that I started to reject all the Christian up-bringing, partially because there were really cute girls in the communistic basis group at school but also because in long discussions with my father as the contra-point I found out that there is no possible proof that there is something like a god. I did not have a god-experience and I did not see what it was good for so why have it.

This was a rather short phase (maybe because nothing worked out with these basis-group chicks) and my path to spiritual development started for real. I had no problem accepting Jesus as a cool guy who understood the workings of the world pretty well, but the idea of him being a son of god was right out.

And so was god himself too. God as an idea, as that what was good in man, was acceptable, but in no way could and would I speak of him or even Him – it was an it.

Scientology came along and made that very easy. There was theta, and that was certainly an it. So no problem here. The only trouble I had was with the worship of Mr. Hubbard but I managed to look around that in order to get the rest.

The fact that Mr. Hubbard said that Scientology does not deal with the 8th dynamic – which is defined as ones existence as the higher being – never really sank in – because I did not want to let that sink in – the world was perfect as it was.

But somehow suppressing the whole idea does not seem to work because now it’s back in form of the Course in Miracles (The Course) and this book is not very shy talking about all my NO words. So I better face that now and forever.

The big question for me is what side am I working for. It could be the dark side of the force telling me that the idea of this god being in heaven is something for grannies and nannies but don’t make yourself ridiculous as a well educated man, or this whole concept of a holy creator is really complete humbug – or is it just some fear in me that tries to hide behind rejecting that which is feared?

It is getting clearer and clearer that there really does not seem to be any stable datum outside of me that would help me to decide, which then by pure logic makes the third possibility the most likely: There is nothing really there outside of me, so all of the possibilities are equally valid, meaning that what The Course advocates – the whole universe as an illusion that we ourselves create – is very likely.

One of the concepts in The Course is that this (ungrounded) fear of god stems from the initial separation from him (it?). A separation in form of a fleeting moment that is already over before it really began – but this moment is our so-called universe.

In other words, if I can’t find anything outside of me to refer to as a stable datum, then it looks as if this whole thing is really my illusion. Which gives the testimony of The Course more credibility, and which, in turn, makes it more credible when it describes the origin of fear and the rejection of god.

I like to find out things for myself – that’s why I joined Scientology – and so I will do this in this case too – I’m now on day 4 of the workbook of The Course, 365 lessons – one per day – to find out where this leads me.

I know, the dark side of the force will tell me that I let myself brainwash and there is no validity in what I will find out – so be it.

PS: tried some high-tech on this article: grabbed my wacom tablet, fired up the handwriting recognition in M$ Office and started to write this article by hand – but have now witched back to the keyboard. It would have taken me five times as long with the tablet – that should convince me that I don’t really need a tablet PC – – – even though I really would like to have one ;-))

Accumulated Comments for This Post

47 comments

5 Feb 2005 @ 12:40 by vaxen : You…
are ‘GOD’ gezi. To come to a full stop in a game, to submerge a games postulate fully, it takes quite a number of counter postulates. One usually isn’t enough. Yet a games postulate doesn’t disappear just because it became submerged by counter postulates. It’s still there and kicks up against the counter postulates trying to silence it.

This, and only this, is the true source of the inner tension called “charge” – the friction between a games postulate and its’ counter postulate.

The depression, the massy-ness resulting from such inner strain is called a Goals Problems Mass or GPM.

Sometimes GPM’s are forcefully installed in people. The person is made to forget his original intention and conditioned to go for their opposite.

Each theta quantum has a branding stamp on it consisting of its’ creators postulate and emotion at the moment of its’ creation. Only because of this can one tell who the owner is.

Any activity containing a goal and the intention to reach it despite all obstacles is considered a game. It consists of goals, freedoms and barriers.

To play the game of ‘a course in miracles’ what games postulates do you adhere to?

The state of being the cause of motion, without moving oneself, is the essence of staticness. You are source. You are static. You erect a barrier of knowingness in order to play the game. Breaking the barrier of knowingness is called ‘samadhi,’ ‘satori,’ ‘havingness.’

As a thetan one can channel ones’ theta energy, ones’ attention, either towards problems or towards solutions and life will run accordingly.

Mental energy consists of ‘theta quanta.’ A ridge is tightly packed theta particles created in the attempt to keep the unpleasent and painful events of life away. They serve as a cusion and shock absorber. Forcibly trying to not have something as it is creates a ridge.

The Christian ‘implant’ smells of incident one and even the earlier universes wherein the implant mechanisms were designed and tried out by the eXperience eNtity of the Not ised Universe on those who went to the circus he provided. Angels, Chariots turning this way and that, lovely…this course in miracles sounds, to me, like just another theta trap.

The real Mr Wilson was abjectly against anyone making out of him a Guru. Little Filbert has a nice BOTWO of the PDC. It is refreshing and succinct. It might be fun for you to read it. Being clear means that you cog on “I mock up my own bank!” R6 is R6, after all, and it requires nothing less than an agreement on your own part. To be free or not to be free? You, ultimately, decide that for yourself within the contexts of whatever game you are interested in playing.

Operating static and Operating Thetan all at once, at the same ‘time.’ The onenss of subject and object. Take care my man. Hubbard didn’t invent Scientology. He assembled it from lots of parts. How really deep did you go? The TOC (Co$) and the ‘Freizone’ are theta traps. Beware. You are ‘source.’ “The price of freedom is eternal vigilance and the willingness to fight back.”—A FSB

5 Feb 2005 @ 17:57 by Kathie Lynch @69.216.21.104 : theta trap
ACIM actually has the purpose of getting us out of the trap. It’s true what you said about what the real ‘Mr. Wilson’ was against. In fact, He says that most of what was written in the Bible was falsely attributed to him, and that most of it is not true. Somewhere in the course or in DU, it says that Jesus was the last Christian:-)) The course was written in many Christian terms to handle all the lies that are in Christianity. ACIM has more in common with Buddhism than Christianity. Buddah did say the world was an illusion.
All that complexity about the physical universe and operating theta is an ego trap to make the ego stronger. Yes, we are God. ACIM gets rid of the complexity and goes directly to Source in looking at the darkness. It also says ACIM is not the only way, but it seems to be a very big shortcut. Please don’t have any pre-conceived ideas about the course if you haven’t read it. Even though it has Christian terms, it has very little in common with Christianity, thank God. If it did, I know I wouldn’t be studying it!

5 Feb 2005 @ 21:17 by vaxen : Christian terms…
smacks to me of ‘enforced implanting.’ Words are, of course, words each with their own peculiar semantic. Beyond words, all of them, you are. The ‘aberrated bridge’ of the TOC and the Frei-zone does not produce ‘Free Spiritual Beings.’ Shortcuts can be deadly as can long cuts. The ‘Dark Sword’ (Excalibur) works. AC+DC+CERI=CO-OPERATION. Using lies to correct lies is a lie and, as far as I am concerned, comes from the implanter orgs. How delightful. “Fear of”…should be a VGI that there is something amiss. Any VIA is still a VIA. It is not hard to take a bath in static. When the going gets rough the rough get going. People say a lot of things. After all did we all not, as Thetans, as Statics, agree to play the eXperience Entity of the Not ised Universes’ game? There are other games. Applying a wrong why only worsens a situation

As a “PLAYER” adjusts his/her position in the games by the purpose vectors of EXTERIORIZATION and HAVINGNESS he is liable to move down the SOURCE SCALE past the center and fall out of the “agreed upon” games into the areas of ‘ENFORCED GAMES.’ The cases and bodies and MEST of GUM 0 TTA/LTA are an example of the worst composite of all levels of the source scale.

Ego is an assumption. There is no ego. There are ‘other’ games.

6 Feb 2005 @ 00:20 by Kathie @69.216.21.104 : complexity
Complexity comes from the ego. The ego is a lie. God is…. We agreed to play the games in Our dream. I’m tired of the dream. I want to wake up.

6 Feb 2005 @ 05:04 by Ge Zi @24.127.146.67 : interesting discussion
It is fascinating to see your discussion, Vaxen and Kathy. Don’t know why I didn’t get my comments feed to jump in and play earlier, but I guess this was supposed to be that way.
It was an onservation I made early on, while still active in the Co$, that people who fell off the bridge often went into strong religious believes. Never understood this, but now I can see it much better – they must have been fed up with the complexities of the whole tech.
I was a much tougher case. I made it nearly through all of Bill Robertsons levels until I saw that complexities were just taking over.
From my experience in software I should have seen that much earlier. If I make a design for a piece of software and during implementation it gets more and more difficult then it’s about time to get back to the drawing board and make a better design. A design is good when it stays simple and might possibly allow for simplification later on. Scio tech definitely does not fill that bill – at least not in the higher levels. But it is a nice mind trap – the mind gets so occupied trying to understand all this that there is no attention left to look for the real way out.
Reminds me of the americans who found out that the ball point pen does not write in space in zero gravity and they spent a load of money to invent the cool pens we have now that write upside down, under water, etc. – the russions used pencils.
Vaxen, I would really recommend reading the two book – and do it in the sequence I mention. It is a difficult step to overcome this scientific mind but there is just no other way in order to get back to become the eight dynamic.
Last time I tried to get rid of that scientific mind I got my feet burned – – – did some firewalk with Flemming, Max and a few other friends. But something valuable I learned anyway – we can get rid of it if we don’t give it time. How come? I walked over the fire just fine – everything perfect. Then sitting all together in the tent and thinking and talking about the experience – that’s when my scientific mind realized what had happened and hurried to burn my feet 😉

6 Feb 2005 @ 05:40 by vaxen : Hahahaha!
That’s a good one GeZi! Yes the Co$ as well as the ‘free zone’ did, and do, a lot of people in. Too bad those who can audit never audited Mr Wilson. Hierarchies are Marcabian mechanisms. We are all individuals, as Thetans, and awakening is returning to the static state. In the early days it was different then came the attacks and the eventual takeover. Intelligence networks like to do that and it was done cause the tech works. In essence it is very simple. Bodhi means ‘awakening.’ “…the work was free.” Well, Minton isn’t. But you did mention, Gunther, having problems with the ‘symbols’ of Christianity as well you might. The Genetic Entity carries the pain and knowledge of it’s many deaths and experiences over from the Central Genetic Entities Data Pool. That becomes it’s ‘bank.’ There is a natural enmity between the GE and the Thetan that was never properly addressed in Astars work nor in HUbs, though it is there in the tech. “There is no new tech.” Enforced implanting is both the Marcabian as well as the Yatruscan way. It isn’t your way. It isn’t the way of the Thetans who agreed to play this game. We know how it was done, though, and we know the way to static state. I feel that much of Captain Bills work was valid but much wasn’t, as well. Wonder what Otto Roos is up to these days? Thanks Gunther. Thanks Kathy. The purpose of the Targs being dumped here is to control thetans/spirits and make sure that they do not wake up. I’t has been said that each one of us have six Targs to ‘take care of.’ Ah, the fruits of systemic suppression. Postulates, postulates…

6 Feb 2005 @ 18:05 by Kathie @69.216.21.104 : discussion
Why put so much attention on trying to figure out all the complexities, when it’s all an illusion? That just makes them more real. I know we all do it and that’s the problem. ACIM simply and gently changes our mind. Since everything is an illusion, the PU is only in our mind. So that’s where the change has to be. Everyone will find their own way. They WILL do it, as the purpose has already been achieved. That is a comforting thought!!

6 Feb 2005 @ 19:36 by Ge Zi @24.127.146.67 : who is …
… this Mr. Wilson and who is Otto Ross?
Somebody I should know – – – or somebody I know?

6 Feb 2005 @ 21:15 by Kathie @69.216.21.104 : who is?
Hi GeZi,
I assumed that the ‘Mr. Wilson’ Vaxen was talking about was Jesus. Otto Roos, I think, was a Scientologist, but I’m not sure. I’m sure Vaxen could tell you.
Kind of a cute name for Jesus, don’t you think? Not any worse than ‘J’!

6 Feb 2005 @ 21:25 by astrid : Oh, gosh….
… I read one comment and hear myself “ahamuming” an agreeing guttural sound…. Then I read the next, half-opposing the prior and yet I hear my self agreeing with the same guttural “ahaum” sound again!… So what’s up with that???
I drop “everthing”. I re-read it all, and now I let my Being FEEL the Truth and whereever I run into it, it resonates throughout my boby. I have always felt the resonance of Cosmic truth in my very body.I think we all do, if or when we are willing to accept it and thus allow it!
Like I said a thousand times: “…some things I’ll never undestand…” Usually those things are the complexities our Social Mind /ego like to trap us in(to)
On the other; when ever I allow the resonance of divine truth guide me, I tend to find the God/ess in me again!

Yeah, who the hell is Mr Wilson???? Did HE write the Bible???? Talking about the Bible; has anyone of you here read “The Bible Fraud” by Tony Bushby yet? If so what are your thoughts about it?

7 Feb 2005 @ 07:01 by vaxen : Mr…
Wilson is none other than LRH. He was born a Wilson then was adopted into the Hubbard clan. Otto Roos was an old timer Scieno who developed a lot of the tech and stood up for himself and the way he felt that the organization was going amock because of MU’s and false data. Hub declared him and Otto went on to build many successful businesses using Admin Tech. I lost track of him somewhere around Copenhagen a long time ago. Was just wondering if you knew how he is doing (alive or dead) is all.

Ultimately this world, that we have built, is an illusion but just try and get rid of it or put your fist through that wall. Pretty solid illusion isn’t it? Are you aware of the OMU (Original Mis Understood)? We are all statics and we intermesh but we are NOT all one! Perhaps that is the most difficult thing to surmise and to understand.

The old game of entrapment is over! The new game of freedom has begun.

The Gen ‘thetan, GE, body’ composite is still operative in our 8th Universe but the Henchmen of the TOG (Temple of God, 5th planet implant, G-8 mockup) and their SB disciples are still out and about.

There are many traps. Scan your dynamics up to PT and look around…perception is the key. Trap and control games still abound. To the beginning of time, then before! Audit, scale, unravel.

Remember Xoth and the Cave of Darkness (Chuh created the body builder implant here and the heavy G-6 body doll)? 😉 365 days? That isn’t complex? Itsa trap! G-8 mockup?

“The prior-Gen were implanted by Tuva and Thero working in concert, for the same reason, out of the same magnitude of POTs (Prior-OT’s), as the SB’s (Shadow Beings). The Gen and their hierarchies were later formed at a place called “The City of Angels.”

Suppressive purposes don’t seem to evolve once set.

PS: I haven’t read “The Bible Fraud” but I have read the TeNaCh. Torah, Niviyeem, Cetuviim. In the original tongue (I speak, read and write Hebrew; old and new), many times, am a Mekubal (Received one) in Kabbalah (studied for years on Mount Tzion, as well as with various Rabbis like Gedalia Koenig etc., in Yisrael). I studied X-tianity from deep within it, as well, so know that implant inside and out. Have studied other major religions, as well, such as Islam… having been initiated into that religion by Beduin Sheichs, in the Sinai desert, and studied with Sofayeen in Yerushalayeem, and elsewhere. Loved Mahayana Buddhism (Practised the Lotus Sutra teachings of Ten Dai) and am adept in a variety of Yogas including Bengali Tantra. None of that matters but only lets you know that I wasn’t born yesterday in these matters. I, too, have been a seeker.

See ya and, again, thanks for the discussion.

7 Feb 2005 @ 17:54 by astrid : The Seekers……
There’s a new world somewhere
They call The Promised Land
And I’ll be there some day
If you will hold my hand
I still need you there beside me
No matter what I do
For I know I’ll never find another you

There is always someone
For each of us they say
And you’ll be my someone
For ever and a day
I could search the whole world over
Until my life is through
But I know I’ll never find another you

It’s a long, long journey
So stay by my side
When I walk through the storm
You’ll be my guide
Be my guide

If they gave me a fortune
My pleasure would be small
I could lose it all tomorrow
And never mind at all
But if I should lose your love, dear
I don’t know what I’d do
For I know I’ll never find another you

But if I should lose your love, dear
I don’t know what I’d do
For I know I’ll never find another you
Another you
Another you…

Ahhh, the power of Free Association!…. : )

7 Feb 2005 @ 18:04 by ming : ACIM
I was at first having trouble as well with the language in A Course in Miracle. It is not the kind of wording I would normally respond to. But the truth shines through so brilliantly that it only becomes a minor obstacle after a while.

7 Feb 2005 @ 18:41 by Kathie @69.216.21.104 : ACIM
“The Truth shines through so brilliantly” states exactly my experience of ACIM.
I grew up a Catholic and and became so disillusioned with that religion when I was about 20 years old. Since then I have studied Scientology, Avatar, and Ifa. Avatar is the least complicated. I think Harry Palmer probably read ACIM before writing the Avatar course. But that wasn’t the answer either.
I had a little trouble at first with all the ‘God’ words, but I realized they don’t mean what I thought they meant when I was a Catholic. The Catholic Church never taught that we were One with God as his Son. And I think of the Holy Spirit as or similar to the Higher Self. I had realized that we were all God(One) a few years ago, but I never understood how I was created. ACIM answers that. He created Us, but We did not create Him. The Truth really does shine through the course so brilliantly!!!

7 Feb 2005 @ 18:48 by hgoodgame : ACIM –
You mean you guys are just now getting to this stuff? The little skinny
volume 3 manual for teachers’ is really the only one you need to blow you in the right direction. The other two big fat ones, I use to help support the shelf our TV sits on. hahahaha
Hey, I did this stuff back in the 80’s! Glad you’re finally catching on. 😉

7 Feb 2005 @ 19:08 by Ge Zi @24.127.146.67 : still here?
Hi hgoodgame,
what are you still doing here???
Maybe you should, after all, let that TV shelf support itself for a while…
just a friendly teaser 😉

7 Feb 2005 @ 21:24 by vaxen : He created us?
Baloney! “We were all one.” Major implanter dictum! We are NOT all one. And if any one is using the so called ‘bible,’ and all its’ implant terminology, then they really ought to speak the friggin original tongues in which it was written! ACIM sounds like just another version of the same old implant. I suppose there is a heaven, on earth or elsewhere, as well? The so called Holy Spirit is NOT the ‘Higer Self’ so it really does matter how you think of it because if that’s what you think, and no one is calling you on it, you are in deep doo doo. The Rua’h’ (h=8th letter Heit) Ha Kedosha, first of all, is female. Really represents more the GE than anything else! Or the ‘po’ soul of Chinese esoteric thought. Hey, but I don’t want to waste space on arguing the ‘view-points.’ Now I am more then sure that ACIM is an implant but you’ll just have to find out for yourself. The free zone and the Co$ are NOT representative of real ‘Scientology!’ Hubbard made lots of mistakes and people, sheep that they are, never called him on it or even loved the man enough to really audit him! He should still be, and is being, audited! His errors, and other peoples too, cost people a lot and I don’t mean just money.

It is so easy for so called X Scienos to say that they were Scientologists. Hubbard said he only gave the world around 15% of what he knew because people were not able, or ready, to use even that! ‘Knowing how to know answers.’ Scientology was not Hubbards to give! “The work was free…” Really? How come it costs so much for insanity?

Well, the real ‘tech’ works better than anything offered by all the rest of the Wisdom schools,’ individually, or together, in mish mash. The real tech is not available. Is not for sale. Is only for those who ‘really need it,’ and want it, and can use it to return to static. Having said that I’ll wish you all well and hope you a short, swift, journey through the many vicissitudes you’ll undoubtedly face when you wake up to the fact that your new found miracle course fades off into the sunset leaving you with a dry mouth and, hopefully, not an empty purse to boot! Good luck in everything you do.

“…I suppose the whole subject of Scientology is no part of the church.”–G.F.

“The two (Scientology and the Church) are not only incompatible but are at cross purposes with each other to say the least.”–ibid above

“All a case is is disagreements.”–i.a.

“All a ‘Reactive Mind’ is is a persons disagreements.”–i.a.

If you understand everything about a problem it is not a problem. Every problem contains elements that are not understood. Any problem can be solved by locating, and understanding these elements which were not previously understood.

The best solution would offer infinite survival for all dynamics!

If you issue the proper materials people attain the proper state. (they’ve never been issued.)

A life static has no mass, no motion, no wavelength, no location in space or time. It has the ability to postulate (make decisions) and to perceive. This is a definition of what something isn’t doing, isn’t being and isn’t having.

The static is capable of considerations, postulates and opinions.

Space, energy, objects, form and time are the results of considerations made and or agreed upon, or not, by the static and are perceived solely because the static considers that it can perceive them.

Be responsible for your own conditions then you won’t be looking for some blind, idiot, creator GoD (implant) to do all your creating for you! Those who are looking for a GoD, outside themselves, are barking up the wrong tree and are susceptible to a gross amount of implanting. Be responsible for your Targs! Be responsible for what you have dumped in this MEST U!

The ‘Technology’ existed before this particular time on what is known as the past track in its pure form and only vague remembrances have been reconstructed through the personal and very brilliant recollections of LRH.

The sloppiness and disorder and general casualness which surrounded this 30 year research line have completely obscured the salient factors of its’ application.

“If you are not using it you do not know it. What a person knows a person uses.”

The old game of ‘entrapment’ is over, the new game of freedom has begun.”

Service Facsimiles abound, yet, I hope you will not take the above as anything other than what it is. I’m not, in the least, trying to proove anybody wrong. I just see a bunch of people going from one thing, promising some kind of salvation, to another, each time gleaning a bit of the ‘truth’ then moving on to some other implant game. Someday you will have to stop staring at the baubles and take responsibility for your own awakening. All of the implant games are meant to do one thing…keep YOU in the loop of unknowing, asleep, and off the bridge to freedom. You must create your own bridge, no one else can do that for you. Not Hubbard, not me, not Gautama and certainly not ACIM. Examine your postulates. What is the real ‘rock’ leading you on this merry go round chase? See ya…

7 Feb 2005 @ 23:05 by Ge Zi @24.127.146.67 : Hi Vaxen …
I could not have said it better:

“All a case is is disagreements.”

8 Feb 2005 @ 01:36 by vaxen : Gezi:
I AM static in motion, so are YOU. Handling ‘The Problem Creators versus The Problem Solvers implant,’ which happened a long time ago, is what seperates the OT’s from the type IV SP’s…one little incident snowballing with resistance.

I was just thinking wouldn’t it be interesting to apply Co-Operating levels to the ‘group level’ of the dynamics? Co-Operating Thetans! It used to be that way…before time, before universes, when we were all statics creating all this. Hey, we still are! heh heh

Seeking IS the cause of discovery. Discovery IS the effect of seeking.

Helatrobus Implant = The Heaven Implant…

Action, intention, counter intention…

I hope you’ve overcome whatever fear was postulated via the via’s of the ACIM game. I know what it was and so do you. You are a good man, gezi, and a great Thetan. Thankyou for your honesty and your wit. See ya, bro…

PS: I’d like to hear you, at least, try to say it better. That would be fun.

8 Feb 2005 @ 17:10 by Kathie @69.216.21.104 : Case
GeZi said all case is disagreements. I agree. What is disagreement but separation? And all separation is in the mind.
I guess Vaxen doesn’t believe God the Father created him, which is ok.
According to ACIM, we are One with God the Father even as He did create us, and we have the same power as the Father because we are One.
I don’t think it can be totally understood in the PU. That’s one area I never understood and never really tried to. I guess I thought I created myself, which now I look at as very egotistical! This course is so awesome. Every day I read more and just get blown away:-))

8 Feb 2005 @ 19:08 by vaxen : No…
, Kathy, God the Father is the same old Mythos preached by Jesus and everyother agent of the implant orgs for thousands of years. We will take old nobodaddy God the Father and ring his friggin nose then kick him out of his heaven and tell him never to come back! After that we will unmock his heaven and free all his slaves! And my quote which Gunther agreed with was “All case is is a disagreement.” ACIM was invented by enslavers. The sooner you see that the better off you’ll be but…you probably don’t want to be free anyway for that requires a certain modicum of responsibility, your own, for your own creation. Old Chuh would love you…

Ultimately you’ll get tired of somebody elses ‘game’ and itch to be free of all the rot then you may awaken to your own ‘godhood.’ Father GoD indeed! Heh! More like the G-6 Gaudhead implant! Actually the CC middle implant. Happy enslavemnt.

8 Feb 2005 @ 20:55 by Ed Dawson @66.245.209.8 : Fascinating Thread
The argument between Kathie and Vaxen got me considering the matter anew. Consider this possibility: that there really is a higher reality (including a higher level of Being) which has been badly defined and misused by idiots and implanters, and turned into an implant by selfish assholes.

So one of you is looking directly at the higher reality, while the other is looking at the misuse and abuse of that reality by implanters. So it is no wonder you two do not agree: you are looking at different definitions of a single word. For example if I type “bow”, one person says it is the front of a ship, while the other disagrees and argues that it is a curved piece of word which fires arrows??? Both are right, but are talking at cross purposes, i.e. using different definitions. And so it goes with words like “God”.

My opinion is that is what is happening here.

A few words about something else on this thread:
“All case is disagreements”

Okay, but please note that all agreements are disagreements! In order to agree, one must exclude the disagreements involved, which is a form of disagreeing with them!!!! Have fun with that…
cheers
Ed

8 Feb 2005 @ 21:18 by Kathie @69.216.21.104 : fascinating thread
Hi Ed,
I don’t think we’re arguing. I’m just giving my belief on the matter like Vaxen is. If Vaxen disagrees, that’s ok. But I don’t think we’re talking about the same thing. I think he believes that he created himself. That never made sense to me. ACIM says that God the Father created us BUT we are still One with Him and have the same Power he has. Nobody still on Earth can totally understand this concept, or he wouldn’t think he were here anymore.
And, yes, I agree with you about agreements being disagreements. But they’re also lies since they are illusions! My oh my, what a tangled web we weave!!!!
By the way, I’m in Wisconsin now visiting my mother for a few days. There is actually snow here! I’ll be back to good ole’ warm San Diego on Thursday. We’ll have to have another get together soon.

8 Feb 2005 @ 23:39 by vaxen : No…
I don’t be-lieve that I ‘kriya-ted (created)’ anything (kriya = movement). I am eternal, beyond ‘creation,’ by anything, or any it or, any created-ideogod composite, demon circuit, or device. Here I am a thetan operating on releasing stolen theta quanta and unmocking this insane ‘creation’ of an even more insane group of ‘thetans’ thinking they can suppress and control everyone who is ignorant of origins. We are ‘eternal’ and we create energy not the other way around. That we have been trapped here via a nasty little mechanism called ‘the Screen,’ which surrounds your planet and keeps the R6 implant in loup restim matters not one iota to me. That you are being restimmed into submission should matter to you. You are eternal, you are essentially free, but you’ve been put to sleep…your thetan, or spirit, so that the energies of your GE (genetic entity) can be used by your controllers for their purposes. You have ‘rights’ yet have forgotten That is a part of an even larger scenario which you are vaguely aware of in your heart. The pathos is that you accept the control so easily because you are so tired of the pain. It is the pain of the GE’s ridges, implants, and mind control techniques that have been used on you to suppress and use you against your will. You have the right to your own self determination! You are a creator/creatrix in your own right and you have the ‘right’ to leave the game whenever you want to. Your rights have been usurped by those with hostile intent who will merely use your energies till they see fit to throw you away only to be restimmed again, and again, into blind subservience to their insanities. That is your Father God. Well, we are aware of the techniques, the semantics, the symbols, that are used (they are there in Earths Banks for anyone to see) to keep you in a state of enthrallment.

“You do not walk alone. God’s angels hover near and all about. His Love surrounds you, and of this be sure; that I will never leave you comfortless.”

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see who is speaking there in the last few words of your ‘workbooks’ epilogue. We call that fellow the eXperience Entity of the Not is’ed Universe. Do you know what universe we are speaking of? Do you know anything about the long history of the 8 universes, including this, your present one? Do you know anything about the static state, or Native State, at all? Analogous to water. Water is a fluid, a liquid. yet when we apply heat to it it becomes a gas, apparently, a steam, it is metamorphised into an apparency. When we chill that steam it returns to its familiar H2O form of liquid. Its’ basic H2O’ness never changed, Morphogenetic fileds in motion. The GE is easy to control through behavior mod. What is the ‘hidden data line’ in your new found faith in an age old implanter org deity? XENU and YATRUS, they always come together. Thus who is it that gets this marvelous peace of mind? Or I really should say: Piece of YOUR mind! We know who it is. We know what they are doing, not only to you, but to all thetans everywhere. It is called enslavement! We are free and we do come back and we know the price for our individual freedom too! Eternal vigilance and a willingness to fight back!

At the bottom of their hearts (metaphorically speaking) all ‘Thetans’ want to rejoin the “co-existence” of static outside all evilness. But in your heart of hearts you know that. Best of luck in finding out who YOU really are. It will not come from the implanter orgs ACIM! Of that I can assure you. Only by you accepting your own responsibility for what you, throughout the long ages of your existence, have created will you come to a true knowingness. All else is implanter org trash!

“You do not walk alone. God’s angels hover near and all about. His Love surrounds you, and of this be sure; that I will never leave you comfortless.”

Now note in the above:

bait
The part of a meme-complex that promises to benefit the host (usually in return for replicating the complex). The bait usually justifies, but does not explicitly urge, the replication of a meme-complex. (Donald Going, quoted by Hofstadter.) Also called the reward co-meme. (In many religions, “Salvation” is the bait, or promised reward; “Spread the Word” is the hook. Other common bait co-memes are “Eternal Bliss”, “Security”, “Prosperity”, “Freedom”.) (See hook; threat; infection strategy.)

9 Feb 2005 @ 00:39 by Kathie Lynch @69.216.21.104 : Yes
HEY, Vaxen. Lighten up!!! Don’t get so serious about an illusion. I can’t even read your post as it’s so complicated. If you’re talking about Capt. Bill’s Bridge, I did OT8(Excalibur). It was fun, but oh so complicated.
I prefer the simpler concepts. Just simple ole’ ME. Don’t forget to laugh:-))

9 Feb 2005 @ 06:04 by vaxen : Nope…
Not talking about that. Capie B got an aberrated bridge. Tell the people killing other people, enslaving Thetans, to lighten up. ‘They’ won’t. I’m certainly not blaming you, not totally anyway [;)], just bringing in some points which I feel to be salient. Interesting that so many have gotten no where and that they have to rely, ultimately, on implants that are meant to enslave them and/or kill them. Take a good look around your so called ‘gods’ world. Who is going to take responsibility for that? OK. I’ll laugh a little…simple old you would be fine, however; Father God is not just simple little old you! May I ask who or what knocked you off the bridge? Excalibur is meant to handle the ‘light stuff.’ Like I said, I am not attacking you, Kathy, so none of the above is to be considered ‘SerFac.’ 😉 We have gotten a nice long thread going for Gunther, though, eh? Illusion? Tell that to Bush and Company and the dead men and women, Americans and Iraqui, that are dying over there (And elsewhere too). Next stop? Iran. On TR0 nobody wants to know why the student is reacting. 26.5 kilometers above the surface of the Earth you’ll find the screen. The ‘screen’ contains a mechanism to reinforce the R6 information forever. R6? Sex, drugs and violence. First the cross then the cannons. Very R6. See ya later. There is a monitor I want to check out where the stars end. Have a nice time of it. Nice to talk with you. BTw: Where is your ‘Native State’ anyway?

9 Feb 2005 @ 17:01 by Kathie @69.216.21.104 : this thread
Vaxen, I can tell you haven’t read ACIM, or if you did you didn’t understand it. ACIM tells us we are totally responsible for our ‘world’, implants and SP’s included, whatever we mock up or create. And God the Father is NOT responsible for OUR illusion. It also says we are very powerful, as we are One with God. And, yes, we are eternal and are only trapped here because that’s what we believe. As for my Native State, it’s where everyone else’s is, unless you’re talking about Wisconsin!!!

9 Feb 2005 @ 18:15 by vaxen : Oh,
I guess you can’t see the cart for the horse. I really don’t care about GoD the Father, GoD the Mother, GoD the kid. In fact you talk about God the father as not being responsible for our ‘illusions…’ and then you say you are ‘one with God the father?’ Talk about dichotomies! Old nobodaddy IS responsible, though ‘pre-tends’ not to be. Xenu is like that, so is Yatrus. The murder, rape, pillage, destroy machine, very R6, very Xenu, and the medical, pharmaceutical, biological manipulation machine, very R6, very Yatrus! It’s easy to hide in something like ACIM telling ‘YOU’ all the itsas and whatsits but forget ACIM, for a moment, and forget God’s, and demon circuits, and mind control, and war, and the whole lot of the insane R6 implant world, and tell me, please, did you ever do the CC? The ‘middle implant.’ 😉 Wisconsin, eh? Say cheese?

9 Feb 2005 @ 18:37 by Kathie @69.216.21.104 : God
We are One with God the Father but He is not responsible for our dream. In our dream that is an ineffable concept. Cheese!!

9 Feb 2005 @ 18:52 by vaxen : God is neuter in English:
There is a way to bust up a ‘cluster’ like “We are One with God the Father.” Apparently you missed that, Kathy san, on Advanced Level 8. Personally I am one with God The Devil. We wear masks, we are one, yada, yada…

ACIM has a nice little lot of GPM’s going for it. As God the Devil I rather like God the Mother, she’s cute, I think I’ll whisper into God the son and God the daughters’ sweet little God ears some things like…”Hey kid, I think yo mamma be cute…can ya arrange a meeting with her for me?” Then…I’ll buy up every copy of ACIM I can, save one for later duplication with me in it instead of him, and burn the lot! You never answer any of my questions! Boo Hoo! Or is that the weeper? Do I hear teenie weenie? Jelly bean? Did you do the CC? The Inc 1 materials? The third wall of fire? Boola, boola, boola, boola, boola, boola, boola, boo…and I forget the rest. 😉

Actually if you take God the Father to be symbollic of the ‘Thetan,’ and God the Mother to be symbollic of the ‘GE,’ and God the Son to be symbollic of ‘The Body,’ then you just might get somewhere…

“There have been some powerful operating thetans which, in the past, designed “theta traps”. Some of these were successful forms of entrapment, in that they are evident in people and their conduct today. The three most prominent ones are these dichotomies: (1) good/evil, (2) survive/succumb, and (3) love/hate. Most, if not all, people have spent their entire existence and time in the physical universe looking through one of these only. It is sort of your own ‘dark glass’ you look through. … This personal ‘dark glass’, or Achilles heel, that each person has is erasable through auditing. Unfortunately, until it is, it is the only meaningful context on which the individual can be addressed or appealed to. The purpose of these 3 theta traps was to eliminate the competition and to render the recipient blind and ineffective as an operating thetan. One of these three, at the least, got laid into them prior to any involvement in this physical universe, and it gets reinforced once they are in it, and it accumulates engrams locks and secondaries (not to mention GPMs, Reliable items and Service facsimilies) very rapidly.”

9 Feb 2005 @ 19:02 by hgoodgame : The screen, or grid,
as some perceive it, is actually of your own making in unconscious co-operation with a source greater than any one individual. Yes we can create our own universe, but first we must change our energy frequency to handle the higher energies of that outer sphere. So in one way it traps you, in the other way, it protects you. From the inside it looks like a trap. From the outside, it was a safety net so you wouldn’t fly too close to the sun before you were ready. What the ACIM teaches is to trust something greater, you have to LET GO at some point and trust.
Gunther, of course I am still here, where else would I be?
Something the trappers didn’t count on, a free spirit!
😉

9 Feb 2005 @ 19:20 by Ge Zi @24.127.146.67 : you guys …
… it’s enough now – don’t you think so?
we are running in circles and it’s become a debate in the purest sense of the world. I would say we are all going to use our own techs and then in the end see who was right. after all we are talking about facts, right?
and you can’t debate about facts – there is no need to convince another person about a fact, right? – RIGHT?
It is either all an implanter game or it is illusion – what’s to discuss about?

9 Feb 2005 @ 19:41 by Kathie @69.216.21.104 : el fin
I agree. I’ve lost interest!! Too much attention on the illusion.
That’s it! But don’t forget to laugh, ha ha ha ha:-)))))

9 Feb 2005 @ 21:07 by vaxen : Facts?
I would call these ‘facts’ ‘Service Facsimiles! (SerFacs)’

Here is a little bit you may ‘enjoy.’ How the brain creates the experience of “GOD.”

http://www.shaktitechnology.com/index.htm

Be warned, though, that this man, these ‘scientists,’ are only talking about the GE. That is all that they are aware of. The light? An implant. And ‘the screen’ is very real. It is not an illusion but since it is dangerous to reveal the truth and Kathy doesn’t like answering questions then I’ll end my end of the bargain here. Thanks for the dis cussion, glad it didn’t reach con cussion levels, and hope you all have lots of fun with Xenu, Yatrus, the Henchmen and their ‘black shadows…’

http://www.geocities.com/nwbotanicals1/oak/holocon.html

In the immortal words of F.N. “God is dead.”

9 Feb 2005 @ 22:03 by Ed Dawson @66.245.208.251 : Re: words of F.N. “God is dead.”
There used to be T-shirts which read on the front:

“GOD IS DEAD” -Nietzsche

AND ON THE BACK IT SAID:

“NIETZSCHE IS DEAD” -God

;-))))

Ed

10 Feb 2005 @ 01:01 by astrid : Alright Ed!
GOOD point! Very good!…. none of Nietche’s lofty babbles did him too much good. did it?

10 Feb 2005 @ 01:41 by astrid : when we
forget that the Cosmic TASK for each of us is to RELATE ( to ALL Things ) oustide of our own ( body’s ) confinement, then we ‘re in deep shit!…. Most people have forgotten. Most people are in DEEP Shit!

NO intellecutal Speculation/Sensational shit has ever given true Life (energy ) to anybody!!!….. but the opposite: exhausted the poor bastard!….

Actually; Man’s desperate efforts to look for the opening where new fresh Life Energy might be accessed: “is this (Philosophy ) the one to open the door to “Everything” ? Yes? No? , eh?? …. an? on an? on it goes?in absurdum!
BUT!?? Once Yes/No is found, there will bo no more Speculations /Justifications / twisting turning of the Separator we call Ana-LYSIS: BREAKDOWN of ALL ( when COHESION = “One’ness” of ALL is what we were really expected to look for and find!… ) all that will come to a screaching halt and “Be Still and Know that I AM God” is the ONLY thing that can adn WILL do for us ,what NO Intellectual ?Whatever? never did/will do!?….
And WHY in the world would somebody else?s Intellectual Bruha be more worthwhile or more ?Correct? than mine ?or yours ( ?as long as it is TRULY yours and not ?borrowed? from someone else, most likely someone dead and buried already????) Who the hell can set him/her up to be that Judge???!!!???

Only relating to Life ( in all its forms (of)/expression ) with Compassion can do that trick! Only FEELING Compassion can make this relating possible! What if this is The Two-edged Sword in The Stimulating World of Allegory/Metaphores!?

Most of us tossed the Old Testament Idiot(-“God”) in the garbage by the time we were ten! …and understood that “GOD” is an Umbrella word -for most of us – to get its full meaning from the contents in which it is used!
Afraid of God. ??? Why??? For us who tossed tha Old Fart out decades ago, there is no dangerous God out there to fear!
Besides, read Mathues: “Moving To The Next Level” Many of us has found this Truth in our own Hearts, with no input from Authorities!… If anything , I would say; DESPITE all the Small –“human” –Old Farts
we found this Truth resonate Cosmic Celestine Music/song saying YESS, YESSS, YESSSSSSSireeeee!!!! And here mathues has told HIS Truth and it just os happens that it is 100% congruent to MY Truth/Insights about Life, from my very early years already. It might ring a bell of resonance in your body/Being too! Give it a chance. It either does pull some Cosmic Strings -or it doesn’t. There’s certainly no SCHOOL of Thought/Philosphy to attend for years and no memorstation necessary. Truth does not need to be memorized like “intellectual” Speculations do.

10 Feb 2005 @ 03:23 by vaxen : “For us…
who tossed the Old Fart out decades ago…” That was the meaning behind ‘God is dead.’ The meaning is the same. Man and superman. If you don’t think super humano bots have been created then who cares? They have been and the project goes on ad absurdam. However, this body, as it is, cannot survive the rigors of deep space travel thus…experiment, experiment, experiment. Out of all that was learned at Treblinka, Daschau, Aushvitz etc., came medical knowledge crucial to the Americo-NAZI space program. Truth in your ‘heart?’ You speak languages. Behind each language is a philosophy of language and much thought…who do you think did the thinking then organizing of the philosophy of language that you ‘naturally’ speak? Naturally? heh! Nice to see you Ed and Astrid. The implanting will go on as it has been for the past thousands of years. Are you your body? Show me your spirit, soul, thetan. Oh, yes that IS possible. Hope some of the links will be visited regardless of how long the tapestry gets.

10 Feb 2005 @ 23:08 by astrid : We both agree that that
particular “god” IS dead! Now, if you can “kill” Toth, Plato, Nietche, Hubbard, Robertson, Freud, Crowley, Hubbard, Billy Graham, Bacon, Kierkegaard, Shopenhauer, plus a few thousand other Idols of the “civilized man/men” and find your own Wisdom/ Truth which should be NO LESS important /valuable, LIFE-giving to YOU; every ?you? !…. then “we’re on track” here ( this is NOT just you, vax; this is to ALL ?hhhYou/mans?, who seem to think that what Someone else, elevated to ?Status? ?and ?Expert?–Position? by the SICK MAD SYSTEM that’s killing us all, would have something more valuable to say than YOU, from YOUR own Heart is a very detrimental idea, to say the least!
WHY would YOUR own Truth be any lesser??????for YOU????? and who the hell is the right guy to think and draw right conclusions for you???????? UNLESS, of course everything they say RING TRUE TO YOU/RESONATE with YOUR TRUTH!!!
IF indeed that is the case, then I take back all I?ve said about it?. : )

The Truth in MY Heart owes NOTHING to ANY Philosphy, quite the opposite: My Truth SURVIVED their attack on ME ( forced upon me by the –should I use your lingo here– Implanters! How’bout you/YOUR own Truth; did IT survive the Implanters? That’s really all ANYONE needs to be leary of, and not bother to try to wrestle down others!… this is after all NOT meant to be a PISSING MATCH?. for obvious reasons?. …hehehhe… ; )

I see you throu the MASK you wear, as you hold the Shi-i-n-ing Room…” Hence I’m pretty sure YOU’VE seen my Spirit as well, and my Soul…. (It ‘s not like I’ve been hiding them in all kinds of Philosophies!… I’m pretty plain, pretty simple and easy…eh!?!) … an’ if you haven’t seen… well then … ” Beautiful Dreamer, open your Eyes…ta dadadah..I’m here by your siiiide…”
Yes I am my body –and more!!!…. Much more…. yet my pinky toe is just as valuable and important for the beauty and fullness I am intended by the Cosmic Blueprint to be, as my… let’s saaaayyyy mmmyyyyy ahhh, use your imagination… an’ keep em toes toasty, my Sweet Vax! : )

11 Feb 2005 @ 19:45 by vaxen : heh heh heh
“what is that-am I afraid of something?”—GEZI

well, i hold my truth to be self evident. but i do think it would be interesting if those who think that ACIM has anything to say at all would examine the back ground, the MKULTRA, background, the CIA background, of the little old lady jewish atheist lady, helen shucman, who ‘received jesus’ via channeled sources ,RHIC jesus, broadcast to her from langley on a via! now transmitting the lie to the duped. dupe is a spy class. spae konar all…thanks sister A-d…we be NAK! ACIM: Sleep with dogs get up with fleas!

http://www.urantiagate.com/conspiracy.html

and

http://urantiagate.com/conspiracy/fleas.html

11 Feb 2005 @ 23:30 by Ge Zi @24.127.146.67 : fortunately
You know vaxen – – – I already said that I’m done with this thread.
No chance to pull me back in 😉

12 Feb 2005 @ 22:07 by skookum : I missed all
the excitement.. again

typical lol

13 Feb 2005 @ 02:25 by Ed Dawson @68.136.84.180 : What’s a “skookum”?
I still want to know what is a skookum! ;-)))
Ed

21 Feb 2005 @ 00:31 by Ed Dawson @68.136.84.157 : Comment on a course in miracles
Some people have said there is no “Real thing” in the physical-universe, it is ALL illusion.

I know this, and many other people also know this. It is one of the things
they teach in a course in miracles. But the flipside of it sometimes does
not get expressed and I feel it is necessary to say it now to avoid placing
a lie, and preventing people from actually attaining the perceiption of the
full illusion.

“All is illusion” is a half truth. It does no one any service to tell only
that half truth, but the half truth does get told, not anywhere near as
often as the full truth.

The full truth is that everything is an illusion, and that the reality of
the illusion is that it is there because we create it there and perceive it
there, and that makes it real. The reality is an illusion and the illusion
is a reality. Damn it, it’s real, because we all say it is. And it doesn’t
serve any useful purpose to not-is that reality by saying it’s an illusion.
It’s as dumb as Alice declaring to the hearts and other suits in Wonderland
that “You’re nothing but a pack of cards!” Sure, but does that solve
anything? Which cards? What are their functions? How did they become cards?
Etc, etc, etc.

Here’s the operating maxim involved:

TO OBTAIN AN AS-ISNESS, ONE MUST FIRST REMOVE THE NOT-ISNESS SO THAT FULL
PERCEPTION IS OCCURING, THEN THE EXACT ANATOMY OF ALL ALTER-ISNESS INVOLVED
MUST BE PERCEIVED. ONLY THEN DOES ONE OBTAIN THE EXACT ISNESS. ONCE THE
EXACT ISNESS IS VIEWED AND DISASSEMBLED, THEN AS-ISNESS OCCURS AND THE VOID
(NOTHINGNESS) RESULTS.

That’s the full procedure. Use it.

I apologize for getting a little pedantic on you all! ;-)))

cheers
Ed

15 Mar 2006 @ 07:01 by vaxen @67.35.193.23 : Wow Ed.
Thanks for your pedantistry. Was just reading this again, after coming across it on the oblique, and see your latest addition then ‘stop.’
“…THEN AS_ISNESS OCCURS AND THE VOID RESULTS.”

“…then as is-ness occurs the void results.:

I sult, you sult, he/she/it sults
we sult, you sult, they sult…

sulting is? Re sult that! Or in sult that, or…

See ya Ed, thanks again. 😉

15 Mar 2006 @ 09:25 by Ge Zi @24.126.93.187 : YEAH!
Thanks, Ed – so true!

15 Mar 2006 @ 11:24 by ming : S’NESS
Bah, it is nothing but a bunch of words. 😉

  • Oh God! or Oh maGod? I had such great laughs reading your article and I bet God, The Universe and everything is also laughing at…I mean… with you.

    Vaya con Dios 🙂